On Saturday afternoon, I called National Socialist Movement (NSM) Southeast Minnesota leader Samuel Johnson, who this spring began organizing rallies in Austin, Minnesota, to protest the presence of undocumented workers and their families in his community.
We talked for a hour and a half about his views about what he called “white separatism” and the transformation of the United States that he hopes to achieve by political means via the National Socialist Movement. This is the first post based on that interview; forthcoming posts will include analysis of his beliefs, links to sources about neo-Nazi beliefs, and other supporting documents.
And while Johnson’s rallies focus on illegal immigration (he doesn’t like using the term “illegal” as a noun for undocumented workers), he hopes to win ethnically European Americans over to his larger cause as they come to understand the changes that the NSM agenda proposes.
Not that he agrees wholeheartedly with those ideas, he said, though he concurs with nearly all of the 25 points of American National Socialism. He does take issue with #7, for instance. It states:
All non-White immigration must be prevented. We demand that all non-Whites currently residing in America be required to leave the nation forthwith and return to their land of origin: peacefully or by force.
Johnson wouldn’t go that far–at least for native-born non-Whites and documented immigrants who agreed to live in separate communities within his new America.
“Minorities should not be citizens,” Johnson said, “only 100 percent true white Americans.” He outlined his vision of a nation in which all people of color would be stripped of their citizenship, no matter how long their families had lived in the United States, and moved to communities that would be strictly delineated according to race.
People of African descent would live with other people of African descent, Latinos with Latinos, Asians with Asians, American Indians with American Indians, and “real Americans” with other “real Americans. “Real American” and non-citizen status would be determined be having had family living in the country for five generations or 50-70 years.
Only if non-whites broke the law would they be sent back to the country of their ancestors’ origins, regardless of how long their families had lived in the United States. Of course, Johnson emphasized, this would dictate deporting all immigrants living here illegally.
“Minorities could have jobs, own homes, and enjoy their own culture,” he said. They simply wouldn’t be citizens of the United States, nor could they become citizens. They would have to keep separate.
“If you look back in history to every country that’s allowed different races to mingle,” he said, “you’ll see that nation has fallen.”
“Look at what happened to Rome,” he said, when I example him for an example of what he meant. “Jews and Africans came into Rome, there were uprisings, and Rome fell.”
Johnson feels that Hispanic immigrants coming into this country without going through proper channels are part of a much larger problem than simply coming into the United States and taking jobs from American workers.
“If you look at MIRAc‘s (Minnesota Immigrant Rights Action Coalition) web page, you’ll see that the pro-legal immigration group wants open borders. It’s so extreme. I think the group is evidence that they’re planning something on a much larger scale.”
Mass immigration of non-white people will destroy what he calls white culture even more rapidly than he believes is happening now
“Look at the past,” he said, And how better things would be in this country if everyone were separated. Now white kids are acting like thugs. It wasn’t that way in white schools before integration. White students did better in school. Since then, white kids have emulated back kids, and the standards have down.”
I asked if he felt that that white people were inherently better than people of color.
Johnson hesitated, then answered, “I think the majority of white people are better than black people in terms of intelligence. The average black person scores lower on IQ tests, around 85 or so, while the average white person is over 100. You can look that up.”
“It’s matter of keeping cultures separate,” he said, adding that separation was a law of nature.
Did he consider white people and people of color to be separate species, as well as culturally separate?
Johnson noted first that his personal answer to the question wasn’t the position of the NSM. But yes, he thought that “whites and minorities are different species, and we don’t see dogs mating with cats in nature.”
Coming in Part Two: Johnson’s separate and unequal politics, his thoughts on the Holocaust, his jailhouse conversion, and an analysis of white working class populism gone wild.
Photo: Rochester Post Bulletin.