E-DEMOCRACY | Reclaiming Fairview Avenue?

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From: Tom Rubbelke
Date: Aug 07 10:16 CDT
I am looking for people interested in reclaiming Fairview Ave. Seems a few years back, a group of ill-advised neighbors decided to attempt to reduce traffic on Fairview, by petitioning to have a center turn lane installed and thereby removing a lane of traffic from both the northbound and southbound directions of traffic. The outcome is now obvious. We have total gridlock at numerous times of the day. Trying to enter Fairview, from adjoining streets and alleys, is near impossible. If you share my belief that we need to reclaim Fairview, please respond to this post and be counted.

From: Ann Treacy
Date: Aug 07 10:37 CDT
So what were you thinking? I do miss 4-lane Fairview – and maybe it’s too late for 4-lane but maybe there’s a better way. For example I’d love to see the bike lane moved to a less busy street. I’d kind of like to see this as a driver – I’d definitely like to see this as potential biker and mother of bikers. (Who wants to send an 8-year old up the Fairview bike lane in rush hour? Prior without the bike lane seems like a better bet!) Thx!

From: Michael Bearfoot
Date: Aug 07 10:43 CDT
I see many, many people using Fairview as a transportation corridor on bikes. I think it would be an unfortunate thing to take that away from them. I’ve used the Fairview bike lane as well and it is nice to just go where I want and not have to redirect to another street.

From: Scott Larson
Date: Aug 08 12:34 CDT
I am not a biker due to an old athletic injury to my knee, but in St. Paul or any core city for that matter, bicycle transportation is a key mode for many. We also must consider, as Ann has articulated, consideration of where children bicycle and their safety. When you don’t have the luxury of large boulevards, as we do on Summit Avenue, where there are choices for bicycle lanes because you have the space to place them. It might be a consideration of making our sidewalks a little less wide and putting a bike path on the city’s right of way on these busy streets. I know in some areas that the trees in the right of way can be an issue, but this solution may afford the multiple lane access to Fairview, as an example, and still allow bicycle traffic in a more safe environment.

From: Will Howell
Date: Aug 08 12:54 CDT
I am a bike commuter and have long disliked my options in our fair city. To demonstrate: Fairview is THE ONLY North-South dedicated bike route between 35/downtown and the western border of the City. Unless you want to take the river path, which is inconvenient for 95% of trips. Personally, I would like to see the city pursue a system of bike boulevards like the infrastructure in Portland, Oregon (where I’m originally from): http://www.portlandoregon.gov/transportation/article/351010 It’s not entirely clear from this map, but bike boulevards have been located equidistant from major roads — allowing bikes similar access to cars when it comes to commuting as opposed to recreational use.
To translate, Saint Paul could mirror this system by turning the following streets into bike boulevards:
– Aldine/Davern
– Griggs (which is happening, although more than needs to be done)
– Prior
…and outside of Mac-Groveland:
– Grotto – Chatsworth
– Mackubin
Personally, I’d like to see a system like this instead of bike lanes on busy roads. Cars don’t want us on those roads, and speaking for myself, I don’t want to be on them either, even in a bike lane. I’d much rather have a slower road just off the beaten path, allowing me comparable access without the risk.
Thoughts?

From: Jack Fei
Date: Aug 08 18:28 CDT
Those wanting more info about Public Transit Impacts in Mac Groveland should come to the Transit Forum on August 27th. More info: http://www.macgrove.org/

From: Callie Recknagel
Date: Aug 10 14:05 CDT
Hello, Thanks Jack for helping to spread the word about the upcoming Transit Forum. I invite you all to attend the forum on August 27th, 6:30pm at the Hillcrest Rec Center (1978 Ford Parkway) to discuss the public transit system, connections to the Central Corridor Light Rail, and the future of public transit in Saint Paul (including the streetcar study, Snelling Bus Rapid Transit, and new bus connections to the LRT). We will hear from Metro Transit and City of Saint Paul planning staff about current and upcoming plans and have time for discussion and questions.
We are also planning a Bike/Walk Forum for mid-September (I will update this list with more details as they are finalized) which will be a very informative event and a better place to discuss bike routes throughout the neighborhood. Panelists at this event will discuss the following questions:
-How pedestrian/bike friendly is our community?
-What can we do to improve it?
-What is the bike/walk/accessibility plan for Saint Paul? for Macalester-Groveland?
-How can we make intersections and construction zones more navigable for the handicapped and visually impaired?
If there is interest in following up with more specific issues after these forums (such as Fairview Ave), the Community Council holds Transportation Committee meetings the 4th Monday of each month. Please contact me if you are interested in adding something to our agenda or if you have any questions.
Best,
Callie Recknagel
Community Organizer
Macalester-Groveland Community Council
www.macgrove.org
callie (at) macgrove.org
651-695-4000

From: Jack Fei
Date: Aug 10 14:06 CDT
There are two public forums sponsored by the Mac Groveland Community Council to educate the community about Transportation issues in our community.
Public Transit Forum: Hillcrest Recreation Center – Highland Monday August 27th 6:30 pm. will cover pending changes in MTC bus service on Snelling, Grand, Cretin, Cleveland, and Lexington with opening of LRT. Will have representatives from Metro Transit and City of St Paul.
Bike / Walk Forum: Macalester College Main Building 4th Wednesday September 19th 6:30 pm. Participants to be finalized.
Believe there will be time for questions and opportunites to communicate concerns and organize.

From: Chuck Steffel
Date: Aug 11 22:36 CDT
Hello group, please stop whining about Fairview.
Roads need to be calmer and slower especially if congested.
Why are 4 lanes needed? A left turn lane when used correctly avoids accidents. I really use it on my bike. Maybe you wanna pass other cars. The turn lane does the trick with fewer accidents. you want the 4 lane Fairview speed trap
I grew up riding in Cleveland Ohio and was on multiple occasions was pushed off the road or into to the guardrail on US 322 and other roads. Compared to Snelling Ave, it is a picnic to ride Cleveland, Cretin or the improved Fairview with a bike lane instead of 4 lane pothole ridden mess that was Fairview.
Drivers, Please chill out.
Roads need to be calmer and slower especially if congested. Why are 4 lanes needed? A left turn lane when used correctly avoids accidents. I really use it on my bike. Maybe you wanna pass other cars. The turn lane does the trick with fewer accidents. Do you want the 4 lane Fairview speed trap to return?
Bike lanes on side streets parallel to Fairview present a problem. How do you cross St Kate’s U and how do you get across Randolph without a light or stop sign? Jefferson is nice and quiet bike route that crosses most arterial roads at stoplights. Do you want or need more lights stop signs to allow bikes or pedestrians crossing Fairview at Highland Parkway?
My hope is for a north south bus line on Fairview Lexington or Hamline so I can bike and use light rail from my neighborhood between St Clair and Randolph.

From: Tom Rubbelke
Date: Aug 12 10:06 CDT
I guess we all have our own ideas regarding what a roadway should accomplish. I’ve lived in my home, 1/2 block from Fairview, for over thirty years. I drive on Fairview every day. I remember when vehicle traffic moved smoothly. I remember when I could enter Fairview from my alley with little or no waiting. Unfortunately, that is no longer the situation. It just isn’t the addition of bicycle lanes that have changed the traffic flow. Center turn lanes, that necessitated the elimination of one lane of traffic in both directions, have caused this outcome. I don’t consider this “Whining”. I consider a statement of facts. I don’t believe bicyclists should be the primary consideration for getting maximum usage out of any roadway. I believe in a Capitol City like ours, we need to get vehicles in and out of the city in a smooth and unencumbered manner. Move bicycle traffic to another less traveled street where they can enjoy much safer conditions, so we don’t read every day about vehicle/bicycle accidents.

From: Tom Rubbelke
Date: Aug 07 10:16 CDT
I am looking for people interested in reclaiming Fairview Ave. Seems a few years back, a group of ill-advised neighbors decided to attempt to reduce traffic on Fairview, by petitioning to have a center turn lane installed and thereby removing a lane of traffic from both the northbound and southbound directions of traffic. The outcome is now obvious. We have total gridlock at numerous times of the day. Trying to enter Fairview, from adjoining streets and alleys, is near impossible. If you share my belief that we need to reclaim Fairview, please respond to this post and be counted.

From: Ann Treacy
Date: Aug 07 10:37 CDT
So what were you thinking? I do miss 4-lane Fairview – and maybe it’s too late for 4-lane but maybe there’s a better way. For example I’d love to see the bike lane moved to a less busy street. I’d kind of like to see this as a driver – I’d definitely like to see this as potential biker and mother of bikers. (Who wants to send an 8-year old up the Fairview bike lane in rush hour? Prior without the bike lane seems like a better bet!) Thx!

From: Michael Bearfoot
Date: Aug 07 10:43 CDT
I see many, many people using Fairview as a transportation corridor on bikes. I think it would be an unfortunate thing to take that away from them. I’ve used the Fairview bike lane as well and it is nice to just go where I want and not have to redirect to another street.

From: Scott Larson
Date: Aug 08 12:34 CDT
I am not a biker due to an old athletic injury to my knee, but in St. Paul or any core city for that matter, bicycle transportation is a key mode for many. We also must consider, as Ann has articulated, consideration of where children bicycle and their safety. When you don’t have the luxury of large boulevards, as we do on Summit Avenue, where there are choices for bicycle lanes because you have the space to place them. It might be a consideration of making our sidewalks a little less wide and putting a bike path on the city’s right of way on these busy streets. I know in some areas that the trees in the right of way can be an issue, but this solution may afford the multiple lane access to Fairview, as an example, and still allow bicycle traffic in a more safe environment.

From: Will Howell
Date: Aug 08 12:54 CDT
I am a bike commuter and have long disliked my options in our fair city. To demonstrate: Fairview is THE ONLY North-South dedicated bike route between 35/downtown and the western border of the City. Unless you want to take the river path, which is inconvenient for 95% of trips. Personally, I would like to see the city pursue a system of bike boulevards like the infrastructure in Portland, Oregon (where I’m originally from): http://www.portlandoregon.gov/transportation/article/351010 It’s not entirely clear from this map, but bike boulevards have been located equidistant from major roads — allowing bikes similar access to cars when it comes to commuting as opposed to recreational use.
To translate, Saint Paul could mirror this system by turning the following streets into bike boulevards:
– Aldine/Davern
– Griggs (which is happening, although more than needs to be done)
– Prior
…and outside of Mac-Groveland:
– Grotto – Chatsworth
– Mackubin
Personally, I’d like to see a system like this instead of bike lanes on busy roads. Cars don’t want us on those roads, and speaking for myself, I don’t want to be on them either, even in a bike lane. I’d much rather have a slower road just off the beaten path, allowing me comparable access without the risk.
Thoughts?

From: Jack Fei
Date: Aug 08 18:28 CDT
Those wanting more info about Public Transit Impacts in Mac Groveland should come to the Transit Forum on August 27th. More info: http://www.macgrove.org/

From: Callie Recknagel
Date: Aug 10 14:05 CDT
Hello, Thanks Jack for helping to spread the word about the upcoming Transit Forum. I invite you all to attend the forum on August 27th, 6:30pm at the Hillcrest Rec Center (1978 Ford Parkway) to discuss the public transit system, connections to the Central Corridor Light Rail, and the future of public transit in Saint Paul (including the streetcar study, Snelling Bus Rapid Transit, and new bus connections to the LRT). We will hear from Metro Transit and City of Saint Paul planning staff about current and upcoming plans and have time for discussion and questions.
We are also planning a Bike/Walk Forum for mid-September (I will update this list with more details as they are finalized) which will be a very informative event and a better place to discuss bike routes throughout the neighborhood. Panelists at this event will discuss the following questions:
-How pedestrian/bike friendly is our community?
-What can we do to improve it?
-What is the bike/walk/accessibility plan for Saint Paul? for Macalester-Groveland?
-How can we make intersections and construction zones more navigable for the handicapped and visually impaired?
If there is interest in following up with more specific issues after these forums (such as Fairview Ave), the Community Council holds Transportation Committee meetings the 4th Monday of each month. Please contact me if you are interested in adding something to our agenda or if you have any questions.
Best,
Callie Recknagel
Community Organizer
Macalester-Groveland Community Council
www.macgrove.org
callie (at) macgrove.org
651-695-4000

From: Jack Fei
Date: Aug 10 14:06 CDT
There are two public forums sponsored by the Mac Groveland Community Council to educate the community about Transportation issues in our community.
Public Transit Forum: Hillcrest Recreation Center – Highland Monday August 27th 6:30 pm. will cover pending changes in MTC bus service on Snelling, Grand, Cretin, Cleveland, and Lexington with opening of LRT. Will have representatives from Metro Transit and City of St Paul.
Bike / Walk Forum: Macalester College Main Building 4th Wednesday September 19th 6:30 pm. Participants to be finalized.
Believe there will be time for questions and opportunites to communicate concerns and organize.

From: Chuck Steffel
Date: Aug 11 22:36 CDT
Hello group, please stop whining about Fairview.
Roads need to be calmer and slower especially if congested.
Why are 4 lanes needed? A left turn lane when used correctly avoids accidents. I really use it on my bike. Maybe you wanna pass other cars. The turn lane does the trick with fewer accidents. you want the 4 lane Fairview speed trap
I grew up riding in Cleveland Ohio and was on multiple occasions was pushed off the road or into to the guardrail on US 322 and other roads. Compared to Snelling Ave, it is a picnic to ride Cleveland, Cretin or the improved Fairview with a bike lane instead of 4 lane pothole ridden mess that was Fairview.
Drivers, Please chill out.
Roads need to be calmer and slower especially if congested. Why are 4 lanes needed? A left turn lane when used correctly avoids accidents. I really use it on my bike. Maybe you wanna pass other cars. The turn lane does the trick with fewer accidents. Do you want the 4 lane Fairview speed trap to return?
Bike lanes on side streets parallel to Fairview present a problem. How do you cross St Kate’s U and how do you get across Randolph without a light or stop sign? Jefferson is nice and quiet bike route that crosses most arterial roads at stoplights. Do you want or need more lights stop signs to allow bikes or pedestrians crossing Fairview at Highland Parkway?
My hope is for a north south bus line on Fairview Lexington or Hamline so I can bike and use light rail from my neighborhood between St Clair and Randolph.

From: Tom Rubbelke
Date: Aug 12 10:06 CDT
I guess we all have our own ideas regarding what a roadway should accomplish. I’ve lived in my home, 1/2 block from Fairview, for over thirty years. I drive on Fairview every day. I remember when vehicle traffic moved smoothly. I remember when I could enter Fairview from my alley with little or no waiting. Unfortunately, that is no longer the situation. It just isn’t the addition of bicycle lanes that have changed the traffic flow. Center turn lanes, that necessitated the elimination of one lane of traffic in both directions, have caused this outcome. I don’t consider this “Whining”. I consider a statement of facts. I don’t believe bicyclists should be the primary consideration for getting maximum usage out of any roadway. I believe in a Capitol City like ours, we need to get vehicles in and out of the city in a smooth and unencumbered manner. Move bicycle traffic to another less traveled street where they can enjoy much safer conditions, so we don’t read every day about vehicle/bicycle accidents.

See threads here and here.

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