What would you call a "welcoming" school?

Shannon, I am willing to debate you on the merit of this curriculum, but please first answer these questions for me: Have you read the curriculum? I do not see anywhere in your article specific reference to anything in the curriculum itself. I am finding that the people who are strong supporters of this curriculum have not read it. It will be important for us to debate this curriculum on its merit and not by personal attacks. Is there any statistics to validate a gay bullying problem at hale that you can point to? How long has the problem existed? Were parents notified that Hale had a big bullying problem? If bullying has been occuring at such alarming rate at Hale, what has the administration done to remedy it? Is the school going to start offering new curriculum each time there is a discipline issue? Do you believe politics belongs in the schools or that our kids should be used as political pawns? Do you believe that the schools should validate personal beliefs? If so, how should differing beliefs be presented? Have you ever disagreed with anyone you love (parent, spouse, child or friend)? Arbuc Flomo Hale Parent

I am the "frustrated mother" being referred to in this article. I would first like to point to the fact that I at no time did I splutter No. No. No. Secondly, Ms. Drury has no idea what kind of diversity that my children are exposed to or those who oppose the curriculum. I would like to ask when was the last time you or your kid sat down and played with a Muslim, an Evangelical Christian, or a Hasidic Jew. Diversity is more than knowing gay people. It seems to me that the more liberal a person is the narrower their tolerance for people not fitting their ideals becomes. At the meeting I posed the question of why we are bringing in curriculum from a PAC and why other groups who are bullied are not focused on as well. There is a tape of this meeting and I would encourage Ms. Drury to review the facts before writing something that is false. I would also like to point out that after a district investigation of principle Bob Brancale's behavior at the parent meeting he was found to have engaged in discriminatory behavior based on my religion. Lets stick to the facts. I know...quite radical.

More Diverse Than Thou! A great idea for a new parlor game. Part of diversity is recognizing that gay folks and their kids exist. They exist whether or not your religion recognizes them--as I recall, that was the issue you and Brancale fought over.

I have read this program, from begining to front. In my humble opinion, I see no "promotion" of anything. Just the plain fact that there are indeed gay family's. That, indeed, same sex parents are in our community. If you don't "support" such a family, for what ever reason, that is your own situation, but in no way can you deny that they are part of our community. And since they are part of our every day, tax paying, law abiding community, they can not and will not be bullied for being just what they are. One can say the sky is orange but there is no fact to back it. I fully support this program. a proud, stay at home, straight mom of two.

You say that you read the curricculum and found it to be inclusive. Hmmm, let me see. African -American families are mentioned 4 times, Latino families only once, Asian and Hispainic families are not mentioned at all. However families with 2 dads are mentioned 12 times and families with two moms are mentioned 14 times. This doesn't seem too "inclusive" to me. Maybe you all should change the definition of inclusive for us. You call this an "anti-bullying" curriculum however bullying for being fat is only mentioned 3 times and having special needs or being handicapped is not mentioned at all. Bullying for pushing, punching or shoving is not mentions at all either. Families of faith are alos not mentioned. If this were truely an "anti-bullying"curriculum then all types of bullying would be mentioned, not just the bullying of GLBT families. Do I think there should be bullying of these families? Of course not, no one does, but let's call a spade a spade and see this curriculum for what it really it. Another question for all you supporters of "WS"...how would you be reacting if a conservative group such as Focus on the Family wanted to introduce a curriculum to MPS? I bet your attitides woudl be quite different. No special interest group should be allowed to put their ideas into the public schools. There are other ways to deal with bullying in MPS schools.

I read the above comments and I cannot believe what I am reading. You really think that Welcoming Schools is "inclusive"? Someone who chose not to give their name even said that it promotes "the acceptance of all people". Really? I don't know if we have read the same curriculum and we must have a different definition of "inclusive". After doing a word scan of Welcoming Schools here are some of the things that showed up... In your "inclusive" curriculum, African-American families are mentioned 4 times and Latino families only once. Asian, Hispanic, Immigrant and families of faith are not mention at all. However, families with 2 dads are mentioned 12 times and families with 2 mons are mentioned 14 times. How is this inclusive? Being bullied for being fat is mentioned 3 times and being bullied for being handicapped or having special needs is not mentioned at at. Inclusive? "Anti-bulling"? Let's be honest here and call this curriculum for what it is. A special interest curriculum, put out by a special interest group (HRC), with their special interests in mind. I can gurantee that if a conservative special interest group like Focus on the Family was trying to get a curriculum into MPS all you backers of WS would be up in arms. MPS did not bring in a special curriculum when my friends daughter was made fun of for speaking Spanish and was called a "wet-back", nor did the distict bring in a special curriculum when a Muslim student was physically harmed. So why are they bringing one in for GLBT families? Do I think GLBT families should be bullied? Of couse not, but this curriculum is not the right one to bring in. One more thing, if you are going to attack another persons post then have the guts to sign your name. You are willing to attack Lesley and apparently even pray for her but you can't sign your name. To me Lesley has alot more impact because she is willing to sign her name with her thoughts and beliefs whereas others are not. Korey Stoelzing Hale parent

Thank you for your thoughtful piece, Shannon. I agree that Hale parents should keep talking. In fact, you and I agree on more than we don't. I appreciate diversity. We both chose to live in and are committed to this wonderful city. My children are, as much as I dislike the term, bi-racial. Our family and friends are from all walks of life and the local elementary school has a great reputation. To answer your question, I think Hale is a welcoming school. In his letter to parents regarding WS, Mr. Brancale acknowledged that Hale does not have a bullying problem. Forgive me the exact numbers, but Hale had about 60 instances of bullying last year. An impressive record considering the enrollment. Few other Minneapolis elementary schools can compare. Hale has a comprehensive anti-bullying program in place. The school board instituted it two years ago and it is used throughout system. We both agree that the Alliance Defense Fund, Minnesota Family Council or any other politically motivated organization should not be crafting curriculum for the MPS. The Human Rights Campaign is just that. It won't be long before our education dollars are being spent defending lawsuits because one PAC's curriculum was used over another. My opposition to WS isn't because I'm, well... gee, bigoted or homophobic. I just don't believe it is age appropriate. I am also convinced that our resources could be better used. My child has experienced bullying before. As much as I wish otherwise, it won't be the last time. A bus ride ride home produced a teary-eyed child and this question: "Why do I have a white dad and brown mom?" It didn't take long to ascertain that her sorrow wasn't so much about race as being singled out. Apparently the resident loud mouth had tired of teasing the poor red head. Maybe he was rightly ignored. But he found a new target. Sometimes we confuse teasing with bullying. Kids at that age tease for reaction. Always have and always will. Most kids that age put little thought behind their words. As any parent with multiple children can attest, siblings who don't have the option of using race, religion, family structure, etc., will find something else to tease a brother or sister about? Anyways, a mother who adores her and a father with a red popsicle quickly remedied the problem with a little positive encouragement. Harder questions on race, and thoughtful answers are not too far away. Call me naive, but these things are usually better handled at home. I am further uneasy about having the school system teach such complicated issues. Hale is fortunate to have very talented and competent teachers. But they do not know the children as well as their parents. My child was assigned a teacher new to the school this year. It has been a challenge, to say the least. When your child's third quarter report card, eight months into the school year, comes home with the FIRST and LAST name mispelled, you have concerns. I am not the only one who feels their child has not progressed in this teacher's care. I reluctantly digress. Hale, as is true with all schools, can improve and we could better direct our limited resourses. I also have many questions, and few answers to date. Have Hale parents read the memo from the Alliance Defense Fund to the school district? If not, I'm happy to share. I'm in the Hale directory. I concede it comes form a highly partisan group and it's research open to debate. But it comes from reputable professionals, orginizations and institutions. It is worthy of investigation. Mr. Brancale has told me and other parents, in no uncertain terms, that the family diversity and gender identity sections of the curriculum would not be implemented. Myself, and most parents I know, have no problem with the anti-bullying section. Why include the family diversity and gender equity in the review material? The Curriculum and Instruction Committee met on May 28th to make a recommendation on WS. Why did teachers, replaced by substitutes, attend a workshop to learn about the curriculum prior to the Committee meeting? Is this a good use of resourses? Or was the deck stacked? Let's all be careful about using the term "lies". Katherine Kersten aside, didn't the StarTribune editorialize that the district and parents find a compromise? One of Hale's strengths has always been parental involvement. It seems their policy on WS contradicts it. Like yourself, perhaps we should all re-evaluate our kids' education. Is the MPS really serving us? They have just requested an additional 30 million dollars from Minneapolis property taxpayers for their budget. This represents TWICE the previous levy. In declining enrollment? It seems that many talented, high school bound students not accepted to Southwest's IB or South's Liberal Arts, seek private alternatives. Have we created a private high school system in Minneapolis? Isn't all day kindergarten at Hale $3000.00 next year? Should we all be saving for public, private and college education? My childs designated high school, Washburn, is "starting over". Edison is as well. That's 33%? of the cities high schools. What's more is that this has been tried three times previously. Only once has it succeeded. Will my Washburn letter jacket become a collectors' item? Some parents have pulled their kids from the system because they believe social engineering programs take precedence over academics. Many decide to open enroll at suburban schools. The districts' answer to those who oppose WS is opting out. Are they trying to create another class of kids to be bullied, open more teaching jobs for "opt-outers", or just pushing more students away? I don't want kids to be taken away either, Shannon. I like them too. Let's not chase them away either. Respectfully, Joe Egan

I disagree with the Welcoming Schoold curriculum and feel that it's inappropriate for elementary aged children. I do not want to go into detail with my first grader regarding topics of same sex, bi-sex or trans-sex or whatever other type of sex is out their nor does he care to know and the school has no place to teach this either. It's silly to conclude as Shannon did that opposing this curriculum means I don't want my kids to know that gay families exist. If that were the case I would never let them out of the house or watch television because kids are pretty smart and othey do have eyes to see with. What is sad about this whole ordeal is adults are pawning their issues onto kids and packaging it in a curriculum by the politcal action group The Human Rights Campaign. They have a goal and they have an agenda and I'm not having it. Kids already can see that families are made up of different people without people pointing it out to them. Matter-of-fact, my first grader, who goes to Hale, mentioned that one of his friends has two dads. I already knew this fact and responded to him yes, you're right your friend does have two dads. He did not ask anymore questions and neither did I. We left it at that. End of discussion. I'm sorry to dissappoint you but I didn't say to my son: those kind of people are very bad and you need to bully them. I know you want to put me in a box and call me evil and hateful and homophobic because I'm a parent who opposes this curriculum (I've seen these name callings in other blogs toward people who think my way) if this is what you define as evil then that's what I am according to your book. By the way, bullying is wrong in any form and whoever does taunt or tease anyone because they are gay, or their parents are gay need correction so it won't go any further along with other types of bullying. I want all children to be safe and I want a curriculum that covers the full spectrum of bullying and an action plan where all parents are content with the components involved but Welcoming Schools is not the answer and falls way short of this.

If you attended the March 6th Hale Parent Meeting, you saw a clip of a video used with the WS curriculum, titled "That's a Family". It is recommended by WS for all children. In that clip, a boy and his two dads are hosting a birthday party. The boy is surrounded by his friends in a fine home, decorated for a celebration. It looked like a lot of fun. In contrast, the video's inclusion of African-Americans, is a family where the children's parents are absent. We see children helping their grandmother haul dirty clothes to the coin laundry. I found the video clip to be offensive and insensitive. If you have not seen "Thats a Family", I encourage you to view it. If you have not read the curriculum, please do. Know what you support or oppose. Steve

After reading Joe Egan's post and then rereading my own, I saw how harshly I spoke out against Welcoming Schools and how sarcastically I responded to the posts of those who oppose WS. Joe opposes it too, however he voiced his opinion in a very resepctful way. I want to apologize for the tone of both of my posts (yes, I am new at posting comments and made a mistake, I thought my first one did not go through and posted it again-oops). Although I firmly believe in what I stated in both posts and do not see in any way how anyone could come to the conclusion that it is "inclusive", I was wrong in the way I stated my opinion. Thank you Joe for you example. Korey Stoelzing

I find the people opposing this program, extremely hypocritical, and bullies themselves. The special interest lies withing the extremist religious right here. Not within the groups that are for equal rights for gays. The cause for action is so obviously deep rooted in a one issue voter, so filled with hate for something that should never concern them, since it does not effect them. Other peoples Sexual Idenities. The comments that scream out for people to be educated before forming opinions is an insult in its self. I am a very educated parent. Therefore I make the choice for my children, not you. If you need a program that only enlightens your children in your views, and what you teach at home, then by all means teach at home. If age appropriate is a problem, then you have all missed the mark. Since my boys came home with stories of what they heard, seen, and witnessed at age 5. I began the talk then. Not in full formed facts, but in pieces. This program doesn't explain anything about sex. There is no difference in a two dad home as there is in an adopted home, there are certainly the same sort of answers you can give the child. As for picking apart the program piece by piece for repensentation, if one was going to show every form of issue or situation for what is not right to bully about, the program would take part as a full time class. So do not hide behind ideas that is what is bothering you. Gay people are here, will never be shoved off to an island so get over yourselves. You don't like them? Think that gays should not marry? then don't marry one. pretty simple. Straight Mpls Dad

I agree with Steve in asking "straight Mpls dad' for some evidence to back up his statements that call me an extreme hypocrite, a bully, a religious extremist, hateful and a single issue voter. Wow, those are alot of adjectives to use to describe me and we have never even met. I am not a bully, a religious extremist, nor am I hateful and I have never be a one issue voter. Have I ever been hypocritical? Probably, we all have at times. I guess I don't appreciate being characterized by these words just because I oppose WS. I have some lesbian neighbors who came over for a beer last night and I do not believe they would use any of those words to describe me either. This is what has been most interesting to me in regards to the whole WS curriculum...those who oppose the curriculum are being characterized as we were above by the "straight Mpls dad" simply because we have a different view. Where is the room for the diversity of opinion? Just because I oppose something I am hateful and homophobic and a bully? There are plenty of parents at Hale who are opposed to WS that have had their fair share of being bullied, having graffti sprayed on their sidewalks and gotten nasty looks or comments from other parents when we are simply dropping our kids off at school. Now that the recommendations have been published by the Curriculum and Instruction department I think we can all see that not all of the WS curriculum is suitable for school aged children. "Straight Mpls Dad", please back up what you say or else don't characterize me, or others, or put people into one general catagory just because we dont agree with you. People are too diverse to be lumped together like you did. Korey Stoelzing Hale parent

I probably can't say it any better than yourself, but allow me a try. I'm not a very educated parent. But I still make the choices for my children, not you. I'm perfectly capable of teaching my children acceptance and tolerance. It's academic help I need from the school system.

Shannon Drury stated: Part of diversity is recognizing that gay folks and their kids exist. They exist whether or not your religion recognizes them—as I recall, that was the issue you and Brancale fought over. I do recognize that they exist and I have no problem with them as human beings. I just don't agree with their sexual behavior. As to your statement of whether or not my religion recognizes them, of course my religion recognizes them, if we didn't I doubt that we would be having this conversation. It is just my religion does not recognize this as good behavior. And to once again clarify, Bob Brancale and I did not "fight" over this issue. Again I ask for you to get the facts straight. Straight Mpls Dad stated: I find the people opposing this program, extremely hypocritical, and bullies themselves. Just reading Shannon's piece that contains the "just go ahead and homeschool 'em lady" comment I could make the same complaint. Just step back and think about how you characterized the "right". Or, is it not bullying if you are on the "correct" (one that you agree with") side of an issue? Liberals think they are sooo accepting of "everybody". Yeah, only if they agree with you. Otherwise you're just a right winger...and oh, they don't count. Straight Mpls Dad stated: If you need a program that only enlightens your children in your views, and what you teach at home, then by all means teach at home. Right back at ya! Please by all means teach your children this stuff at home. Conservatives are here, will never be shoved off to a desert island so get over yourselves. pretty simple. Lesley Chaudhry Right Mpls Mom

Having your "lesbian" neighbors over does not make you a supporter of civil rights. I dare say, that anyone ever uses sentences that start like, oh I have plenty of "black" friends, or I doubt it if my "lesbian" neighbors that I had over last night.... are you for real? that is clasic text book Hiltler, mass following, bigot at its best. Please, if your going to try and "prove" how forward thinking you are, do by example not by slaying down civil correct programs. I approve of Jef's anger. Its the right that has collected together (in that scary organized way of the ones with hoods) to try and push out the soft eductated spoken voice of the liberals. For that, the liberals are the ones to blame for a lot of this of the rightwing. They have laid back and let people "have their say". I for one, am a left radical. That is willing to fight fire with fire when it comes to you right wing nuts. Henny, black, straight mom of three.

Did I read that correctly? Did someone actually try and use that phrase while saying they were not a bigot? Wow really?

I am a moderate Swing Vote type person. I have Voted in the past for more conservative people, along with moderate sided Dem's. I think everyone is off the mark here. There is a lot of anger going back and forth. I have read, and support this program for many reasons. I feel that it has no "statement" on what is right or wrong. It does show differences, and it does include gay families in its anti bias and anti bully message. I feel that the comments are being made in the same form and context as they were raised in the 50's, 60's, 70's when segration was abolished. When programs had highlights of interracial families, and friends. When there were issues of color introduced for the very first time. Is it all a bit cheesey? Yes, I would say yes. But its how its done. When there is cause for a group of people who are actually leagally bigoted against, such as the gay community, then the over statement is what comes first to change the way of social bigotry. I hear tones of religious bias here. I do understand that coming from the religious bullied front, that perhaps your all fighting back from a bullied situation yourselves. And that again, is something that the social movement needs to address as well. Jimmy Carter, is someone I try to use as example when ever Religion and social, civil correctness needs to be addressed. You can have groups of people living side by side with two very different takes, views and ways of living, in harmony. Don't be afraid of what your kids will learn. Facts can not hurt them. No matter what the age. If there is love, and guidance at home to explain that you disagree with a certain thing that is being told to them in the schools, then, you will have done your job by expressing it. We are not here to control the generations we are bringing up. We are here to give them safe lives to have the opportunities to grow up and make their own choices. For as an american, its choice that makes us great. one can debate that its a choice to be gay, or perhaps its a choice to act on his or her gayness? I am not here for that debate. If you do not think that their "Behavior" is appropriate then you do not have to choose to live with one, or interact with one on a personal level. But that person will still be there next door to you, in the 10 percent margin or higher for the rest of your lives and the rest of your children lives. I am surely thinking that if any one of the one opposing this program, has a child that grows up to be gay, there will be differences in how you think. Or perhaps you will abandon your child because you put conditions on your love for them? I hope not, and I am sure you hope not as well. Older parent of middle school age children. Widdowed.

One of things that attracted me to the TCs was it's innovative, progressive stances...and it being a home of great minds. What a beautiful place to live. Or so I thought...when I read about Hale - the opportunity! they were being offered with the Human Rights Campaign folks, and the ensuing drama and rejection by the school's families I was shocked. Then discouraged. Now, just resigned. Do we need to be specialized? Do we need to have a 'those people' scarlet letter school for: progressive families of color who accept and care about those outside their socio-eco-politico interests? What's fair is fair. Just treatment of all people should be taught. If there's a chance to be a part of a 'ground breaking' curriculum of tolerance in education, DANG IT, I want my school district to be a part of it. I want our parents to help shape it. If there was something missing, like omission of races - well, great minds need to tell them what's missing and correct it. How is Hale serving it's students? Are kids learning? Are the children excelling/exceeding expectations in reading, writing, math, geography? I hope so. Just as the basics should be ensured, so should high-touch, thinking skills, the arts and civic responsibility. Great hope for the future - signed, mom of 2 in MPLS

Civil and Current Social Studies is a need in our schools. We have a chance to stand tall and proud in an area where a Social group is discriminated against, and people protest? Its an example why our schools need programs that have piloted first time shown differences like same sex families! The shear showing of families standing against such programs is the very reason our society needs it. I come from a religious background. I do church every week. I am extremely spiritual, I volunteer and donate a large part of income. I do understand facts and fiction though. I understand that man has made fear, that man has written books, and that it has been man that has preached. God, in any version is a personal thing, and has nothing to do with man. We have free will, and if we are good, law abiding, and non harmful to the planet and to people, all will be welcomed. I hope that line will be taken into the schools, all will be welcomed, including gay people. An old mpls mom of grown children.

Its funny how the same five people are the ones protesting but its a huge diversity of people who are standing tall, proud and for this program.

Right vs. Left; liberal vs. conservative, “us” vs. “them”, etc, etc, etc…… We will continue to discuss, debate and blog these issues for a long time! That being said, I am wondering how many people responding to this blog have read and studied the Welcoming Schools curriculum? I trust you have so you are not merely putting “your vote in” for right vs. left. If we are truly concerned about our children and bullying in school we need to put politics aside and ask ourselves, “Is this the best antibullying curriculum we can find for our children”? I have studied the Welcoming Schools curriculum and find it weak in basic areas. During the early elementary years we need to concentrate on helping children build a solid foundation for themselves. We need to focus on 2 primary areas: 1. helping children build a strong positive self image. 2. teaching children to respect ALL people no matter how they are the same or different from oneself or ones family. Following are a couple of brief examples of how Welcoming Schools does not meet these basic criteria. 1. The Welcoming Schools curriculum states, “ask students to close their eyes and think about their list of things they love to do. Would any of the things be different if they were born the other sex?...” (Page G-7 pilot edition of Welcoming Schools). This lesson is geared at Grade Level K-2nd grade. Why would one ask a kindergartner to close his/her eyes and think about being born the opposite sex? I am not a child psychologist, but I do not find this exercise to be emotionally healthy in any way. This exercise requires a child question their self image instead of building it up. 2. The Welcoming Schools is not respectful of ALL people. In another lesson children in Grades 1-3 are given a group of pictures and ask to create families. “the packet of photographs selected make it IMPOSSIBLE to create seven “traditional” families…Students will find that they must create some families with adults of the same gender”. (Page F-26 pilot edition of Welcoming Schools). At this young age why is it not ok for the children to create families of their choice? I believe it is short sighted for a public elementary school to accept a “free” curriculum from ANY political action group. What will we do when a Muslim child is teased? Go out and get a curriculum based on the Quran? What about when a child is teased because of their faith in Jesus Christ? Go out and get a free curriculum written by Focus on the Family? When you are building blocks with a child and want to build a strong base do you scatter a bunch of blocks on the floor and start building? Probably not, yet this is what it feels like with the Welcoming Schools approach. Especially in the early elementary years we need to teach the basics-the foundation of good character- positive self image and respect for others. I feel as parents, school administrators and concerned community members we can do much better for our children than Welcoming Schools. Karen Hinrichs Hale mom

I am very confused to why everyone opposing it a) keeps asking did you ever read this? Very nice to think that we are soooo uniformed if we have a difference in opinion than you! Also b) why is it that the ones opposing it, the same exact crowd over and over again, a little "posse" if you would allow the term (if you want fact, go ahead and google welcomeing schools and see the same names over and over and over again) saying exactly almost word for word the same thing? As if, perhaps there is a very organized down in the basement, white hooded idea to it? Unlike the ones that are supporting it? All different humans, so then all with different reasons, and supporting ideas? you know hmmm what is the word I am looking for? diverse! yes thats it. And since you all ask us that support it, to justify why, let me ask you to justify yourselves. and lets see how many are brave enough to answer honestly. how many of you are not coming from a religious basis? if Religion is running the gamit here, there is huge debate on seperation of school/state/church. And if that is what is running your highly orginized lynching on the gay community, then, lets all go back to the idea that specialized schooling is the answer, because do not try and push your agenda, special one issued special interest group of YOUR religion on me. My beliefs are strong, and personal, and I vote on the moral, family values platform, that is the back bone of MY beliefs not YOURS. And I do not share what those are, because its not appropriate in a seperation of school/state/church backbone of what this country is made from. And to try and fix the the plan to "normalize" the idea that religion is ok hide behind, and to push on others, is morally bankrupt.

Schools should be moving away from social engineering, not towards it. They are responsible for core curricula, not diversity, head-patting, or making everybody comfortable. Part of childhood is learning to cope, including coping with bullies. Are we a nation of 9-year-olds? Answer: yes.

Jef, It is likely that you have a very limited understanding of the separation of chuch and state. It may surprise you to know that our founding fathers invoked the word of God much more than any of our most conservative leaders today. A comment section of this article is not the place to provide enough information on the topic, but I urge you to research this further. It is also insulting to outright call those opposing the curriculum the KKK. One of the parents who has commented on this article is African American and I doubt she'd appreciate the affiliation, not that any of us would. A case that may interest you can be found on the ACLU's web site. http://www.aclu.org/lgbt/youth/32387prs20071026.html

Jef, Some of the parents who oppose WS at Hale are African-American so be careful with uninformed associations with the KKK...that is ridiculous! Anonymous parent of 2

of course you understand the difference between the idea of letter of the law and the intent? Perhaps you unerderstand that the idea of invoking the very idea of what your saying with the "letter of god" being invoked over and over again, actually goes against your idea? please get a grip on the law before you try to use it against me. You my friend that can't say your name is exactly what your are voking against. thank you for your ideas and examples because they are used against you and are why we have the laws we have now.

Remember that our country's Founding Fathers were also slave owners. I think that stains their moral authority somewhat, don't you? Their great contribution to society was giving us the framework on which our country can evolve and grow. That's what's happening right now. We are growing into a more welcoming society, not less.

You follow the laws of homosexuality do you follow these? Your male and Female slaves are to come from the nations around you. From them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life. -Leviticus 25:44 If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property - exodus chapter 21:20 Bid slaves to be submissive to their masters and to give satisfaction in every respect, they are not to be refractory, nor to pilfer, but to show entire and true fidelity. - Titus 2:9

"Liberals are the most unwelcoming people. If you don’t fit with their image, then you don’t count" Are you serious? This coming from a conservative? the ones that are anti gay, don't allow gays into their churches, and schools. The ones that protest funerals of our men in uniforms funerals with signs that state, your son died becase of gay people? The ones that want to not give money to the poor? and to our schools? The ones that didn't take care of our own people in our own natural disaster in New Orleans? The ones that are allowing our fire fighters to die from toxic smoke issues from 911 without any help, or support? The ones that are allowing our wounded men to come back to no medical support and or mental support? who are sending them back again and again? The ones that want to put a wall around our boarders to KEEP PEOPLE OUT? The ones that took away habas corpus? and will put innocent people on an island for years without representation, and then let them go and say nothing or do nothing to correct it? The ones with the laws that have put YOU the muslim in tragic states at airports, hosipitals, churches, schools, and have taken away all your diginity just because you look a certain way? although you are an american? These are the people that welcome society? You have chosen badly in my mind. I know that your religion does not allow to accept a lot of things in our society, but it doesn't make it right to discriminate towards the very same people that want to give you the right to oppose us! if you continue to vote the way you do, then the conservative right winged people that you are so holding close to, will take away your rights just watch.