Activists respond to Archbishop comments on homosexuality

The bible clearly states that homosexuality is abhorent to god and should not be tolerated.
How can a true man of God say it is alright.
If people are to follow the bible properly then this is a matter that is very serious.
The word of God can not be changed to suit different times.

“The bible clearly states that homosexuality is abhorent…”

Yeah, blah, blah, blah… It also says on the same page that mixed-fabric sweaters, eating shrimp and getting haircuts are all abhorrent and that people should murder their children if they swear. It’s important when you read to sift through context and consider who’s being quoted.

“How can a true man of God say it is alright.” Maybe if that true man is a Christian, he values Jesus’ words over just any old quote by those who contradicted him in the Bible.

“If people are to follow the bible properly then this is a matter that is very serious….” Yes, every bit as serious as keeping the blacks out of Shoney’s, making sure women don’t get educated, and excommunicating those who said the earth is round and revolves around the sun. You`ll find whatever you want in the Bible to prop up any imaginable position if you don`t care who said it or what the context was.

We were put on the earth with the ability to reason and to feel compassion for others. it`s too bad some just don`t.

Neinstedt`s ugly statements will just serve to further disenchant reasonable and compassionate people from the church.

There are not over a hundred people in the United States who hate the Catholic Church. There are millions, however, who hate what they wrongly believe to be the Catholic Church.

Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13

“You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.” (NASB)

“If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them.” (NASB)

While the meaning of these passages seems clear, pro-homosexual advocates argue that since Leviticus 18:22 appears in the holiness codes for the Levitical priesthood it refers to ritual, not moral impurity; ceremonial, not moral prohibitions.

Others argue that since these passages condemning homosexuality are surrounded by other commands that were purely ceremonial in nature and no longer apply to believers under the New Covenant, the same applies to the command against homosexuality: it is ceremonial in nature, and no longer applicable to NT believers.

These lines of argumentation are flawed for several reasons. First, they ignores the fact that the New Testament condemns homosexuality as well.

Secondly, it is not true that these passages are surrounded by ceremonial commands pertaining to ritual purity. The immediate contexts of both passages are filled with moral commands that apply to all men, not just the Levitical priesthood. Among them are commands forbidding incest and other inter-family sexuality (18:6-17; 20:11-14, 17, 19-21), adultery (18:20; 20:10), child sacrifice (18:20-21; 20:2-5), bestiality (18:23; 20:15-16), and the seeking of diviners (20:6). There are only two non-moral commandments in the immediate context: killing kids for cursing their parents (20:9); forbidding sex with a woman on her period (18; 20:18). While there are many non-moral commands in other parts of Leviticus, that does not detract from the fact that the immediate context in both anti-homosexuality passages consists of a host of moral sins.

Some argue that God’s condemnation of homosexuality was limited to homosexual acts associated with idolatrous worship. “Normal” homosexuality apart from this context was acceptable. If such were the case, why does the text not make this explicit? Furthermore, following this line of reasoning one could cheat on their wife, have sex with their daughter, have sex with animals, and kill their children so long as those acts were not in the context of idolatrous worship!

The fact of the matter is that there is no way to get out of the plain reading of these passages without doing serious injustice to the normal methods of interpretation and common sense.

http://www.apostolic.net/biblicalstudies/homosexualbible.htm

I see you seem to find a conversation difficult, as you`ve been trained to argue against the official talking points that your anti gay group tells you ``the pro homosexual advocate`` will say. When what I said wasn`t in your playbook , you felt the need to attribute an argument to me out of what you`ve been taught I will say (but which would never come out of my mouth, as it isn`t the basis of my view}, so that you could argue against your imaginary `pro homosexual` using the official lines you`ve been given.

Hi. I’m a Catholic. I used to disagree with Church teaching, and then I realized I was being an ass by not doing my own research, so I engaged my mind and did my own reading on what the Church teaches, and why. And when I saw the logic, I came home.

I also support the Archbishop, who is also the messenger being attacked here. He is simply stating the teaching of the Catholic Church.

You don’t have to accept what he says, just as you don’t have to accept the catechism and the Scripture he is teaching. That’s your perogative.

You have a right to disagree, I and every other person who is actually Catholic has a right to agree…that’s what makes us Catholic.

If you disagree with Catholic teaching, you are not Catholic. Pure and simple. Walk away. Stop trying to make an existing religion into what you want it to be. Just create your own and add your own neon sign to the other 30,000 Protestant religions.

It’s very simple: If you agree with what a religion teaches, you join that religion. If you disagree, you do not become that religion.

God gave us all a right to accept or reject His love. Reject it if you wish, but that rejection means you are accepting the consequences of your own rejection of His love.

Your barrage of rhetoric does not change Church teaching. If you disagee, then walk away. Jesus let people walk away, too. Why should you be any different than the unbelievers in the New Testament gospels?

Of course, we’d all prefer that people accept Church teaching, but none of us is here to convert others; that job belongs to God alone. We love you…accept that or reject it.

Truth does not exist in a vacuum of our own minds; there is such a thing as objective truth, and it happens to be possessed in the Catholic Church. Again; disagree if you’d like but get over yourself and move on if you disagree.

I support the Archbishop, and the Old Testament as revealed in the New Testament.
And thus, as far as Biblical scholarship goes, you have to actually follow waht the Word of God is teaching us; each covenant had different meanings.

But some things were never abrogated. While humanity went from being vegetarians to carnivores, some issues remained in place. and as the story progressed, we saw the meanng of blood in the plan of Salvation.

The prohibitions against homosexual behavior were not abrogated, and in fact, Jesus stated very clearly that some sins separate us from God. That doesn’t apply just to homosexual behavior, but many other behaviors as well. The ministry of Jesus was mercy, but he knew the heart; he could see humility, contrition, repentance, shame, all of that which is not exterior. We all battle with the flesh in some way. And Jesus, as our Judge, ultimately, will see that and judge us accordingly. Moral behavior is not on the same level of ritual impurity or dietary codes. To say otherwise is completely ignorant of actual biblical scholarship.

We are all disordered; that is life in this fallen world; we are all out of order, sexually and otherwise. That does not mean we should affirm one another’s disorders. That is not merciful.

Jesus came to raise us up….not to condemn us to the filth we tend to aspire to roll in.

If you take the Bible out of context, you can justify anything; if you read it synthetically and within given themes, you cannot help but be convicted and converted to the very love of God.

God loves us all too dearly than to let us perish in our daydreams of how we’d like things to be. We don’t get to dictate to God; it’s the other way around.

to all catholics who believe anti homosexuallity is the way of christ:

according to the epistles we are no longer under the law, the law being now for conscious…..............conscious of loving our neighbors as ourselves(the summation of the law). in order for for homosexuality to be a sin it has to….....has to come against loving your neighbor as yourself.

homosexuiality is the desire to bond with the same sex out of mutual love, respect,attraction, and trust for a committed shared life together….........the same as heterosexuality.

practicing homosexuals have never been found wanting in any sector of society compared to heterosexuals. they are not less a brother , father, counselor ,attorney, friend , manager, soldier,doctor, frriend etc.

what is the spirit of the essence of homosexuality that it would come against christ…........or…..........in other words what is the essence of homosexuality that it comes against “loving ones neighbor as oneself”.

The housing for the chronic alcoholics and drug abusers? With the foreclosure rates going up I think those monies have more deserving recipients. Maybe it needs to be concentrated on a bit more. The latest article made the new head of this or that sound like the braggard no doubt it is. I’ve done this all my life by choice, I got out of it and now I’m assisting my buddies. What it doesn’t mention is not everyone made those choices, and those choices were not made for them.

I disagree with Mary Lynn Murphy when she said “Such extreme talk…gives license to hatred and violence against all of us.”

I think in logic it is called the “excluded middle.” If we call one side “extreme” and pit it against “hatred and violence,” then it manipulates the reader into falling for one side of the argument.

If the archbishop believes it is a sin, and others do not, then there are many people in between who perhaps believe it is not right for them or some other combination. No one is giving license to hatred and violence when all are given a voice.

Archbishop Nienstedt is a wonderfully compassionate and understanding man. He would be failing at his job if he were to say that homosexuality is alright by the Catholic Church. He is not going against the Catholic grain so to say but is in fact quoting exactly what the Catholic church teaches. If you don’t like what Archbishop is saying then you need to take it up with the pope and all Catholic doctrine because they say exactly what Archbishop is saying. The cities are truly blessed to have an Archbishop like John C. Nienstedt.